The USA: Trump-Biden Transition - attempted coup + Trump IMPEACHED (AGAIN!)

I don’t hate Pelosi, but what I will say is that the democrats have always been seen as weaker and less formidable and less willing to attack - that’s why they lose more often than not unfortunately. So having the odd bulldog on the team can be useful. They may not represent the core values but good to unleash when the situation requires it
 
KindaCool said:
I love Pelosi a lot. She's such a crafty old bitch. But yes, she needs to retire asap. She's made way too many enemies in the past year, although a lot of it was beyond her control.
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It was almost ENTIRELY beyond her control. She has done so much to keep the Democratic Party (which is very diverse) together. I'm sorry, but AOC (who I love) isn't what won Biden the Atlanta suburbs, or helped him in the Milwaukee or Philadelphia suburbs.

The problem is that the Republicans represent a large minority of the country with one common goal, and the Democrats represent a broad range of coalitions. Coupled with structural disadvantages in the Senate and Electoral College, it is so much harder for them to win.

AOC and other progressives need to be listened to, but the solution isn't giving up on the many Americans who aren't especially political or ideological, but find the Republican Party of 2020 vile.
 
RJN said:
In short, the solution (IMO) isn't choosing between AOC and Nancy Pelosi, but embracing BOTH.
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Yes, especially since the Republican party is still chock full of old school Republicans like Mitch McConnell. Nancy is one of the few Old Guard democrats who could take him on.

Could you imagine AOC going up against a beast like McConnell? There'd be nothing left but feathers.
 
KindaCool said:
Could you imagine AOC going up against a beast like McConnell? There'd be nothing left but feathers.
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I don't see this at all. In a debate, AOC would eat him for breakfast. In terms of the levers of power, yes, McConnell has more experience with them, but AOC would be more willing to break convention where it makes sense to do so. And she would hardly have to know every detail of procedures, there are teams to work on this, so she'd hardly be alone.

However, having said that, I think AOC would operate best when not constrained by leadership. Is there a US equivalent to (shadow) cabinet collective responsibility, because I could see her running foul of that?
 
ZenGiraffe said:
I don't see this at all. In a debate, AOC would eat him for breakfast. In terms of the levers of power, yes, McConnell has more experience with them, but AOC would be more willing to break convention where it makes sense to do so. And she would hardly have to know every detail of procedures, there are teams to work on this, so she'd hardly be alone.

However, having said that, I think AOC would operate best when not constrained by leadership. Is there a US equivalent to (shadow) cabinet collective responsibility, because I could see her running foul of that?
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Mitch McConnell's strength (despite his seeming inability to die or feel shame) is that he knows every detail of procedures, doesn't give a fuck about convention, and is willing to do and say whatever is needed to get ahead.

Based on a quick google of what the shadow cabinet does, we don't have anything official, but it already kind of sounds like the role that AOC takes.
 
RJN said:
Mitch McConnell's strength (despite his seeming inability to die or feel shame) is that he knows every detail of procedures, doesn't give a fuck about convention, and is willing to do and say whatever is needed to get ahead.
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Sorry, the above should have said that AOC is more willing to break convention than other democrats. We all know Mitch couldn't give a shit.

And collective responsibility in the UK means if you are in Cabinet, you resign if you want to criticise or vote against the government. The shadow cabinet, which are opposition parties presumptive cabinets, have a similar, though slightly looser arrangement.
 
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Agreed

The Democrats in general (and me) like the norms and the idea of civility, but I'm not sure the American people care
 
ZenGiraffe said:
In terms of the levers of power, yes, McConnell has more experience with them
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It's much more than that. He's pure evil genius. He knows every trick in the book and has an incredible amount of influence over Congress because his connections run so deep. McConnell is the ONLY man in Congress Trump was scared of. When Trump needed anything, the first door he'd knock on was McConnell. How do you think he got his wife the Secretary of Transportation job? McConnell is the heart of the Republican party. They all follow his lead.

His equivalent, in experience and influence, and the only person who can make him sweat is Nancy. The only other person I know who stood up to him was John McCain, and that was because he was dying :D

McConnell is also just a merciless cunt. He doesn't believe in compromise. He believes in the Republican Party and that's it. To him, Democrats are not colleagues, they are an obstacle. He even named himself "grim reaper" because he enjoys tearing any bill that remotely helps poor people :D
 
That article about AOC is odd in that it frames AOC as 'breaking the truce' but she was simply responding to comments from John Kasich that 'the left nearly cost Biden the election'. Considering it doesn't seem like the election will end up even being that close at all, it seems like that was a pretty unnecessary jibe.

And her response wasn't even to tell the party to move leftwards but just to say "check your (non-existent) digital campaign before you come for me."*

*paraphrasing here.
 
funky said:
For all this Melania hate (and I get it) I’m fuming far more about Mike Pence - I have never met anyone more spineless in politics in my life and I’ve lived through Michael Gove and Ian Duncan Smith

the way he would stand behind Trump at every barmy press conference with that fixed smile, claiming to be religious when it suits him, all because he knows he needs to keep his mouth shut so he can run for office when the fool is kicked out. What a cockroach.
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Yeah, he's a particularly special kind of cunt. In some ways I despise him more than Trump.

It's taken me nearly fifty years to realise I think there aren't many positive qualities I admire more than integrity, and that I cannot be dealing with people who utterly lack it.
 
I know VP's aren't really renowned for having to really do much, but what HAS Mike Pence done in the last four years? I genuinely don't even think I know what he sounds like (I can only imagine the snivelling Bad Lip Reading voice)
 
Tisch said:
I know VP's aren't really renowned for having to really do much, but what HAS Mike Pence done in the last four years? I genuinely don't even think I know what he sounds like (I can only imagine the snivelling Bad Lip Reading voice)
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Well he has been busy lying on Twitter today:

 
Look at his face though. The face of fat, rich, privileged old white Britain. I bet he has gout. He looks like his own spitting image puppet. He’s probably still upset that India isn’t in the Empire any more.
 
Oh the last few posts here have been delicious. Please keep them coming.
 
It truly encapsulates Trump's desire to be seen as classy and fancy but his complete inability to do so.
 
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