Labour: The Keir Starmer years

Sir Keir's won - are you happy with this outcome?

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Mugatu said:
She's a fairly high-profile Labour activist, isn't she? At any rate, the actions of the broader left inevitably have an ripple effect on party politics, that's how the so-called anti-Semitism crisis arose in the first place.

I can assure you I didn't say it was phrased poorly in the auspices of defending fucking Keir Starmer, if that's what you're getting at.
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I know you didn't, but I'd like to think that it is possible to draw comparisons on the systemic racism in both police forces particularly when they've been so rottenly interlinked for decades. Israeli security forces, who are routinely called out for their human rights violations, have trained thousands of police officers across the US. It's not shocking that they share practices like this even if they do not appear in any "police manuals".

I took objection to you saying bringing Israel into the conversation was "odd" or "tone deaf" because for a person who is involved in Palestinian activism it is absolutely not odd at all to see the connection, it's the first thing I thought of when I saw the video of George Floyd. "Phrased poorly" I can agree more with :) and also, yes ultimately she cannot prove that the IDF is teaching that particular "technique" even when there's proof everywhere that they use it routinely.
 
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I don’t think she was ever going to last TBH. Too close to Corbyn and fucking useless to boot. I imagine if it hadn’t been this it would’ve been something else in a few month’s time.

My friend’s elderly father who is a classic red wall lost Labour voter is delighted. Those are the voters Starmer needs to be bringing back to win in 4 years.

Is it fair? Probably not. Am I going to mourn her inspiring contribution to frontline politics? Nah.
 
Peekaboo said:
For the UMPTEENTH TIME, it's not antisemitic to criticise the state of Israel and its practices.
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I didn’t say it was. But some people ARE interpreting it as such so the message that Keir is sending out IS ‘we won’t accept anti-Semitism’ whatever your interpretation of what Peake and Long-Bailey said is.
 
Far from being useless, RLB was actually standing with the teaching unions while the useless 'grown ups in charge' of Labour won't say boo to a goose in case it makes them look disagreeable.
 
cwej said:
I didn’t say it was. But some people ARE interpreting it as such so the message that Keir is sending out IS ‘we won’t accept anti-Semitism’ whatever your interpretation of what Peake and Long-Bailey said is.
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The message he is sending is that he is in the pocket of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, who routinely "all-sides" human rights violations by Israel against Palestinians and calls anyone (including other Labour Jewish groups) who criticises Israel an antisemite/self-hating Jew.

This is the group who successfully lobbied Labour candidates to sign up to a pledge to fight antisemitism where they appointed themselves and only themselves as the ultimate adjudicators of what constitutes antisemitism or not. There are thousands of Jews who do not agree with their position on these matters and any Labour leader worth his salt should be listening to all.
 
What a fucking bleak prospect it is if the future of the Labour Party lies in the hands of old men who could flip flop their entire political views and hand a majority to the most right wing and diabolical government this country has ever had, all on a whim just because they didn’t like Corbyn.
 
It's a question of trust. Corbyn failed spectacularly at winning the trust of the working class majority he was supposed to represent. Anybody perceived as being too close to him is going to be forever tainted by that. Long-Bailey is, by her own design, the absolute manifestation of that in the party.
 
It's a reach to say that the old tropes of "Jews run the world" and "Jews want to start a race war" is what's being pushed here when the word JEW does not appear in the interview anywhere. Maxine said that systemic racism is global (absolutely true), that it is present in both police forces (absolutely true) and that the US police department had been trained on a particular restraining technique by the Israeli police (evidence abounds of both forces doing it, but it is not demonstrable). She was linking the actions of estate police in the US and in Israel, she did not say that "Jews" have told "White Americans" how to suffocate black people.

For the sake of healthy debate, we need to be able to criticise the actions of the estate of Israel in the same way we can openly criticise the actions of other governments without being accused of antisemitism.
 
Also, while we're at it, it is worth pointing out again that it was Maxine, not Rebecca, who was interviewed. Rebecca literally quoted the link to the interview with a line praising Maxine generally, she did not single out the Israel comment, and the Israel comment is one line in a wide-ranging interview that touches upon numerous other topics, including by the way fairly extensive and unapologetic criticism of the current Labour leader.
 
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Peekaboo said:
Also, while we're at it, it is worth pointing out again that it was Maxine, not Rebecca, who was interviewed. Rebecca literally quoted the link to the interview with a line praising Maxine generally, she did not single out the Israel comment, and the Israel comment is one line in a wide-ranging interview that touches upon numerous other topics, including by the way fairly extensive and unapologetic criticism of the current Labour leader.
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Isn't that in itself a sign of why she was such a liability as a front bencher though? Healthy debate is one thing, but Labour was torn apart by internal divisions (among other things) under Corbyn. How are you supposed to win back trust when a prominent front bencher is re-tweeting articles that criticise the Labour leader AND could be perceived (fairly or otherwise) to contain antisemitic conspiracy theories?
 
Peekaboo said:
Also, while we're at it, it is worth pointing out again that it was Maxine, not Rebecca, who was interviewed. Rebecca literally quoted the link to the interview with a line praising Maxine generally, she did not single out the Israel comment, and the Israel comment is one line in a wide-ranging interview that touches upon numerous other topics, including by the way fairly extensive and unapologetic criticism of the current Labour leader.
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I do agree with you, but I think the politics of the article and the workplace drama that is her sacking are two separate discussions. If you’re in a position of authority and you endorse an article in the way that she did without any nuance or sensitivity, you’re showing yourself to be a liability. I myself learnt the hard way when I was quote-posting my agreement of lengthy VoR posts before I realised all the subtle references to satanism and a new world order.
 
VoR said:
Isn't that in itself a sign of why she was such a liability as a front bencher though? Healthy debate is one thing, but Labour was torn apart by internal divisions (among other things) under Corbyn. How are you supposed to win back trust when a prominent front bencher is re-tweeting articles that criticise the Labour leader AND could be perceived (fairly or otherwise) to contain antisemitic conspiracy theories?
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I'm not disagreeing with you. If the Labour Party wants to win an election, they have to appear to be united, a luxury that Jeremy Corbyn was NEVER afforded from day one right up until the last election from many internal factions of the party including the Jewish Labour Movement.

The question of Palestine in the Labour Party is not going away and the positions will only continue to entrench with moves like this. If Keir has a job "rebuilding the trust" of the Jewish Labour Movement, he also has a job in speaking up for the many people who support Palestine in the Labour Party.
 
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Well considering dragging the party leader has become de rigueur over the past few years he’s going to have a hard time putting that genie back in the bottle. :D
 


I don't think Diane Abbott posting this conspiracy theory about a conspiracy theory is racist, but if Labour could force her to stand down I think it'd really help sell the party to middle aged white men in the North.
 
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VoR said:
Labour today, criticising the state of Israel in a way that’s actually somewhat meaningful, rather than pointlessly linking them to the George Floyd murder... :eyes:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...anctions-on-israel-over-west-bank-annexations
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I certainly welcome this and I know she is a Friend of Palestine, but by calling it a "ban" and not a "sanction" she is just pussyfooting around the issue. Last month over 120 MPs (including Tories like Crispin Blunt and Jewish MPs like Margaret Hodge) signed a letter asking the PM for sanctions and her name was nowhere near it. Nevertheless, I welcome it wholeheartedly in the same way I welcomed Maxine's comments highlighting systemic racism in police forces around the world :)
 
Well, with one sacking out of the way *extremely Davina McCall voice* FANCY ANOTHER ONE?

There's calls for Lloyd Russell-Moyle to resign over an article in which he accused JK Rowling of 'using her own sexual assault as justification for discriminating against a group of people who were not responsible for it.'

Which is absolutely true, but makes for a TREMENDOUSLY bad pull quote.

Here's his article, which is about Labour needing to stand with trans people against a new Section 28.

Here's the Mail's take:

 
:D!

I wonder when SIR KEIR will twig that his own MPs are held to a higher standard than his mates THE TORIES.
 
Labour continuing to be a shitshow non shock

if they spent half the time and effort they spend on tearing each other apart they might stand a chance :eyes:
 
I mean, snark all you like but it's working...

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ohnson-as-preferred-choice-for-prime-minister

Labour leader Keir Starmer has overtaken Boris Johnson as the public preferred choice for Prime Minister, according to the latest Opinium poll for The Observer.

Starmer is preferred to lead the country by 37% of voters polled on Thursday and Friday last week, compared with 35% who say Johnson would be the best Prime Minister.

While the Tories remain four points ahead of Starmer’s party on 43% to Labour’s 39%, the gap has closed from over 20% in February and early March when the Tories enjoyed a regular commanding lead as the country rallied behind the government, and Jeremy Corbyn was reaching the end of his time as Labour leader.

When asked about the relative performances of the government and Labour in reacting to the Covid-19 crisis, Starmer’s party stretched its lead by 9 points last week alone and now has a net approval rating of +13. This is the figure reached when the percentage of those who disapprove is subtracted from the percentage who approve.

By contrast the Tory approval stands at -10, having been at +26 shortly after the full lockdown was announced by Johnson on March 23.

After a week in which many people flocked to crowded beaches to enjoy the hot weather some 54% of people now think the UK is coming out of lockdown too fast, up from 46% last week. Meanwhile, most of the public (59%) continue to think testing levels for Covid-19 are insufficient.
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I mean, I used to comfort myself with articles from the Guardian too but that’s how I ended up getting my feelings hurt over Jeremy Corbyn :D
 
You know I love THE POLLS though, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Corbyn ever personally polled ahead of May or Johnson throughout his entire tenure. So this is a very good sign.

Unless you're content to bitch and moan and live under Tory rule forever of course :)
 
VoR said:
You know I love THE POLLS though, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Corbyn ever personally polled ahead of May or Johnson throughout his entire tenure. So this is a very good sign.

Unless you're content to bitch and moan and live under Tory rule forever of course :)
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This this this. Concessions must be made to gain power. I say do whatever you need to Sir Keir.
 
To be fair, Donkey story aside, the Murdoch Machine hasn’t had any reason to print daily smears about Starmer yet as he’s falling in line like a good boy.
 
You mean playing a smart game and winning back the party's shattered credibility? He must be stopped!
 
VoR said:
If that's all Corbyn needed to change to win people around he must have been even thicker than I credited him...
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You’d be surprised. I remember an entire conversation surrounding Corbyn in my former office about how he was “too scruffy to be Prime Minister” and berating him for not wearing a tie to some or other event (I think maybe rememberance day?)
 
Sheena said:
You’d be surprised. I remember an entire conversation surrounding Corbyn in my former office about how he was “too scruffy to be Prime Minister” and berating him for not wearing a tie to some or other event (I think maybe rememberance day?)
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The ridiculousness of this complaint when you look at the state of Boris...
 
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