Edward Colston and the removal of racist statues

A museum objectifies its content. A statue heorizes it.

Racists will fight for that statue tooth and nail.
 
The footage of the statue being dunked in the sea fills my heart with MIRTH. Well done Bristol :disco:
 
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The smell of burnt gammon off Twitter last night was hilarious - if a little bit scary in places with people claiming that they were happy to form part of a vigilante army against this display of lawlessness. Most of them looked about 60-odd and can likely manage 3 garden rakes and a golf club among them but it's still a bit unsettling - it's not just the US where the persistent use of the language of war by the government has a deleterious impact.
 


(He's done many other pro-protest, anti-Priti Patel & pro-BLM tweets also)

I don't know what has changed with Piers Morgan recently, but as somebody who arguably has some of the biggest influence in the UK over people who passively follow politics, and gammon parents across the land I'm here for it.
 
Same.

But don't forget as soon as trans rights are back in the news, he'll be right back to slagging them off again along with JK Rowling and Sharron Davies.
 
It's been confirmed that the placards left around the plinth will be saved and displayed in one of the city museums. I kind of hope they fish Colston out of the harbour and display him in the state he's in.
 
In fairness, it's a city which has allowed that statue to remain. For two years at least the council has been debating putting another plaque on it detailing his role in the slave trade, but couldn't reach concensus on the wording. So did nothing instead.
 
Yeah of course the people in power are CUNTS. But by all accounts the populace KNOWS where it's at. I'd rather visit that than being SPAT AT like last time I visited THERESA MAY'S CONSTITUENCY.
 
There is already talk of replacing it with a statue of civil rights campaigner Paul Stephenson, who spearheaded the Bristol Bus Boycott in 1963. That was a key event in the passing of the Race Relations Act in 1965. And yet despite it being recent history in my own city, I never learned anything about it in school. I think i was well into my twenties before even being aware of it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Bus_Boycott
 
lolly said:
There is already talk of replacing it with a statue of civil rights campaigner Paul Stephenson, who spearheaded the Bristol Bus Boycott in 1963. That was a key event in the passing of the Race Relations Act in 1965. And yet despite it being recent history in my own city, I never learned anything about it in school. I think i was well into my twenties before even being aware of it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Bus_Boycott
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Oh I've heard of that. Does Bristol have a difficult history with race?
 
Had LBC on during my lunchtime walk but forgot that at 1pm it swings quite sharply from the left (James O'Brien) to the right (Sheilagh Fogerty). She was SEETHING about the statue.

I'm starting to see people's points about bland "professional politician" centrism with Starmer as well. In most cases I think the centre ground is a pretty useful place and am all for "meet in the middle and talk" in general. I'd still rather have him there than someone unelectable. But to hear such a carefully sanitised and belief-free speech about understanding the issues while being EXTREMELY CAREFUL to reiterate that tearing down a statue is a Bad Thing and it should be done through democratic process, being very careful not to upset one side or the other... bleh.

Thing is, they say all this about "they shouldn't be tearing statues down, they should be bringing the issue up for a democratic discussion" but BAME been trying the "democratic discussion" approach to things for something like 60 years now since the last time they took major action like this and they just effectively get a pat on the head and a "we'll think about it, ok?". I can't at all blame them for finally running out of patience. I still think democratic discussion SHOULD in a more ideal world be the right way of doing things, but that requires those in positions of power and privilege to actually listen and actually make changes, rather than just saying they will, sweeping the issue under the carpet and thinking it'll go away. Sooner or later someone lifts the carpet.

Tetris-Rock said:
I’ve been doing some interesting reading into the origins of the police - always helpful to remember that police aren’t something that have existed forever. Only since the mid 19th century.

I am interested to see the evidence from the Minneapolis approach. I have heard a number of very persuasive arguments over the past few days about who and what the police are really for, and how, quite often, they are brought in to deal with situations that would be far better dealt with by other specialists. Mental health is one of these things - the number of times the police are contacted to deal with someone with severe mental health issues and do so poorly (because, surprisingly enough, they aren’t experts in mental health.) In the UK, these conditions have been exacerbated by austerity where local authority spending (and thus community-based services) have been cut back to a greater extent than spending on police.
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Yeah this is true. It surprised me actually, when I was concerned about a friend I mostly know online (he's relatively local, 15-20min drive, but we met online) who made some extremely worrying (as in, off to commit suicide) comments in chat and disappeared. Now, to be fair, the correct thing to do would've been to just go and check on him but in the pressure and panic of the moment (plus I think not having been to his house before then) fear got the better of me and I just dialled 999 instead and asked who I speak to about someone I think may be in imminent danger of suicide. "Oh you want the police, putting you through now"
And yeah my first thought was "huh, since when is it a crime to be suicidal?". My more long term thought is "it's an emergency but nothing fits". An ambulance would be a bit premature for what is so far a threat, it wouldn't be practical to keep whizzing ambulances out every time someone says something a bit worrying when there are people in imminent and proven danger to save. Fire service? House not on fire and he's not a cat. So it falls by default to the police. There should be a mental health emergency service in this day and age.

Anyway as expected they weren't much direct help. The officer said like "right this falls on us by default, but if you can attend yourself that'd be far preferable and far less distressing than a bunch of boys in uniform bashing the door down". To be fair to them, he had a point. To also be fair, he remotely risk assessed the situation, asking various questions about his history before leaning towards encouraging me to go myself and making a mutual agreement to keep in touch (which was really helpful for not feeling like I was dealing with it alone and snapping me out of the "flight mode" response to the prospect of finding a dead/dying friend). He did call back the moment he thought I'd be there, and again 5-10 minutes after. My friend was okay by the way just very upset at some personal news and making a cry for help. The officer called back again a bit later to double check, then a follow up the next day and a couple of days after. There is definitely a place for "professionals who are in a position of authority and have their shit together", sometimes we're not acting correctly/logically and need someone to tell us what to do and there's definitely a good point to be made about how a friend can be the most help in that kind of situation. But we need a much better system than this for mental health emergencies. Not everyone is within a 15-20 minute drive of those they care about, and not everyone has a big network of local friends who can help out.
 
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Ag said:
Oh I've heard of that. Does Bristol have a difficult history with race?
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Honestly, I don't know. I mean the city's wealth is built on slavery (and tobacco), and I think it's seen as a pretty liberal city, and I do get a sense that it does self reflect a lot. It has had its fair share of riots, but then so have a lot of other UK cities. I do wonder if we're quick to riot compared to other cities though, and have a more politically motivated population - hence the Tesco riot of 2011. But I've never lived anywhere else for a significant time to compare it to, and I'm probably also in a bit of a bubble doing the job I do.
 
Incidentally, do any other UK cities have similar statues as Colston? I'd be amazed if it's the only one. Surely they can't last long. I'd be surprised if the council didn't take them down for 'safety'.
 
I was wondering if we did but aside from Blur and the lady who wrote Twinkle Twinkle Little Star there's not really anyone worth putting a statue up for here.

In fact aside from a few pieces of terrible relatively modern street art and the war memorial I can't think of any statues in the town.

Actually Thatcher lived here. Maybe put one up so we can tear it down.
 
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There's one in St Andrew's Square in Edinburgh, I read it this morning. Can't remember the name, I've never heard of the guy but then I didn't study British history at school. It's already been targeted so it's a matter of time I guess.
 
Got me thinking about monuments now. Laurel and Hardy are probably safe. Sir John Barrow? Seems he was either an imperialist nutter or a human rights advocate depending on the historian.
 
There is a statue of Thatcher in my home town (which is also her home town) but it is quite rightly in the museum rather than the town centre
 


What an image.

Incidentally, the road the statue is on called Colston Avenue. And building behind Colston Tower. I'm guessing that is up for discussion now.
 
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lolly said:


What an image.

Incidentally, the road the statue is is called Colston Avenue. And building behind Colston Tower. I'm guessing that is up for discussion now.
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That would literally be an amazing statue.
 
Peekaboo said:
There's one in St Andrew's Square in Edinburgh, I read it this morning. Can't remember the name, I've never heard of the guy but then I didn't study British history at school. It's already been targeted so it's a matter of time I guess.
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Henry Dundas. Nearby Dundas Street is also named after him also.

I see Oxford residents are EYEING Cecil Rhodes too.

Cloud said:
Anyway as expected they weren't much direct help. The officer said like "right this falls on us by default, but if you can attend yourself that'd be far preferable and far less distressing than a bunch of boys in uniform bashing the door down". To be fair to them, he had a point. To also be fair, he remotely risk assessed the situation, asking various questions about his history before leaning towards encouraging me to go myself and making a mutual agreement to keep in touch (which was really helpful for not feeling like I was dealing with it alone and snapping me out of the "flight mode" response to the prospect of finding a dead/dying friend). He did call back the moment he thought I'd be there, and again 5-10 minutes after. My friend was okay by the way just very upset at some personal news and making a cry for help. The officer called back again a bit later to double check, then a follow up the next day and a couple of days after. There is definitely a place for "professionals who are in a position of authority and have their shit together", sometimes we're not acting correctly/logically and need someone to tell us what to do and there's definitely a good point to be made about how a friend can be the most help in that kind of situation. But we need a much better system than this for mental health emergencies. Not everyone is within a 15-20 minute drive of those they care about, and not everyone has a big network of local friends who can help out.
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Well, absolutely. I’m honestly glad you had a good experience, and it’s fortuitous that you got an Officer that seemed to at least vaguely knew what NOT to do, even if they didn’t know what TO do. But yeah, you’re right that there should be quality emergency support for those having a mental health crisis. In England, Mental Health Trusts do have mental health crisis services that can be contacted but I suspect these services would benefit from investment.
 
Tetris-Rock said:
Henry Dundas. Nearby Dundas Street is also named after him also.
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He sounds LOVELY!

Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville was a Scottish advocate and Tory politician. He was the first Secretary of State for War and became, in 1806, the last person to be impeached in the United Kingdom, for misappropriation of public money. Although acquitted, he never held public office again. He is the only person accused of such a serious crime to then have a public statue erected honouring his memory.
Dundas was instrumental in the encouragement of the Scottish Enlightenment, in the prosecution of the war against France, in obstructing the abolition of slavery, and in the expansion of British influence in India, dominating the affairs of the East India Company. An accomplished machine politician and scourge of the Radicals, his deft and almost total control of Scottish politics during a long period when no monarch visited the country, led to him being pejoratively nicknamed King Harry the Ninth, the "Grand Manager of Scotland" (a play on the masonic office of Grand Master of Scotland), the "Great Tyrant" and "The Uncrowned King of Scotland".

Of course he was a Tory :eyes:
 
cwej said:
Sorry since when were both RACHEL ADEDEJI AND KELLE BRYAN in Hollyoaks?
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I think they joined shortly after Maria Lawson and Su-Elise Nash left the cast.
 
Peekaboo said:
He sounds LOVELY!

Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville was a Scottish advocate and Tory politician. He was the first Secretary of State for War and became, in 1806, the last person to be impeached in the United Kingdom, for misappropriation of public money. Although acquitted, he never held public office again. He is the only person accused of such a serious crime to then have a public statue erected honouring his memory.
Dundas was instrumental in the encouragement of the Scottish Enlightenment, in the prosecution of the war against France, in obstructing the abolition of slavery, and in the expansion of British influence in India, dominating the affairs of the East India Company. An accomplished machine politician and scourge of the Radicals, his deft and almost total control of Scottish politics during a long period when no monarch visited the country, led to him being pejoratively nicknamed King Harry the Ninth, the "Grand Manager of Scotland" (a play on the masonic office of Grand Master of Scotland), the "Great Tyrant" and "The Uncrowned King of Scotland".

Of course he was a Tory :eyes:
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Come on Edinburghers...
 
How is he going to lift the statue from the bottom of the canal with a pole? The BRAINS on these people...
 
Peekaboo said:
There's one in St Andrew's Square in Edinburgh, I read it this morning. Can't remember the name, I've never heard of the guy but then I didn't study British history at school. It's already been targeted so it's a matter of time I guess.
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Yes the Melville Monument commemorating Henry Dundas, 1st Vicount Melville as T-R mentioned. He's known for promoting the Scottish Enlightenment and one of the leading Scottish political figures at the time. He was nicknamed 'the Great Tyrant' and 'Uncrowned King of Scotland' due to the level of control he wielded up here. It was privately funded in the 1800s by members of the navy.

His political efforts to delay the abolition of slavery are frequently overlooked, as is his role in the Highland Clearances and expansion of the British Empire in India.
There were grumblings about the statue for years so a plaque was added in 2016 to highlight the controversy surrounding this legacy.

The monument was restored in 2008 but really should have been removed at that point. It's an embarrassment that he still stands high on his pedestal.
 
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