Labour: The Keir Starmer years

Sir Keir's won - are you happy with this outcome?

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You realise the tactics you were praising Penny Mordaunt for just yesterday (paying lip service to things he doesn’t actually believe or intend on doing to avoid alienating a huge swathe of floating voters) are exactly what Starmer has been doing consistently since 2019?
 
VoR said:
You realise the tactics you were praising Penny Mordaunt for just yesterday (paying lip service to things he doesn’t actually believe or intend on doing to avoid alienating a huge swathe of floating voters) are exactly what Starmer has been doing consistently since 2019?
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was I praising that? I really don't think I was. I was observing it.

either way pretending to be liberal and then not being is probably quite a bit worse than pretending to be more right wing than you really are. and while Penny didn't make any policy promises as part of her "pandering to the base", Keir literally promised to work with the unions, and is now out here commanding his shadow cabinet not to engage with them or speak any support for those striking. so it's really not the same thing at all, is it @VoR. the man's a fucking joke and this country deserves considerably better from an opposition party.
 
Jark said:
was I praising that? I really don't think I was. I was observing it.

either way pretending to be liberal and then not being is probably quite a bit worse than pretending to be more right wing than you really are. and while Penny didn't make any policy promises as part of her "pandering to the base", Keir literally promised to work with the unions, and is now out here commanding his shadow cabinet not to engage with them or speak any support for those striking. so it's really not the same thing at all, is it @VoR. the man's a fucking joke and this country deserves considerably better from an opposition party.
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He’s not pretending to be a liberal. If anything, he’s pretending to be more right wing than he really is! (If he was pretending to be the former then by your own analogy he’s doing a pretty crap job at it!)

He’s very obviously made the tactical decision that, on balance, winning back floating Tory voters is worth the risk of alienating voters on the left. Clearly he’s pissing a lot of people off, but realistically many more of them will bite the bullet and vote Labour anyway. That floating centre-right vote is much more fragile.

In reality a Starmer government is always going to have a much more constructive relationship with Europe than the Tories, and there’s a massively increased likelihood that at some point we’d be in something resembling an economic union again. But of course he’ll deny that consistently while he’s in opposition. If he breathes a word to the contrary, the Tories will run the entire next election on ‘Vote Starmer, Lose Brexit’. And as great as that might sound to us, that would still play very badly with a huge swathe of the population. He’s counting on more loyal left voters to tacitly understand that, and I think most do.

You may not like it - and I do think he’s overplayed his hand a few times recently - but if you’re going to criticise him I think it’s worth doing it from the perspective of what he’s actually doing, instead of creating a Tory in red clothing boogeyman who just doesn’t exist!
 
Yes Kier lad get the jars in n ring for a bag m8

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VoR said:
He’s not pretending to be a liberal. If anything, he’s pretending to be more right wing than he really is! (If he was pretending to be the former then by your own analogy he’s doing a pretty crap job at it!)

He’s very obviously made the tactical decision that, on balance, winning back floating Tory voters is worth the risk of alienating voters on the left. Clearly he’s pissing a lot of people off, but realistically many more of them will bite the bullet and vote Labour anyway. That floating centre-right vote is much more fragile.

In reality a Starmer government is always going to have a much more constructive relationship with Europe than the Tories, and there’s a massively increased likelihood that at some point we’d be in something resembling an economic union again. But of course he’ll deny that consistently while he’s in opposition. If he breathes a word to the contrary, the Tories will run the entire next election on ‘Vote Starmer, Lose Brexit’. And as great as that might sound to us, that would still play very badly with a huge swathe of the population. He’s counting on more loyal left voters to tacitly understand that, and I think most do.

You may not like it - and I do think he’s overplayed his hand a few times recently - but if you’re going to criticise him I think it’s worth doing it from the perspective of what he’s actually doing, instead of creating a Tory in red clothing boogeyman who just doesn’t exist!
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This is essentially what I think, I don’t love him but if he has to lean hard into the centre to get these cunts our then so be it.
 
big ron said:
This is essentially what I think, I don’t love him but if he has to lean hard into the centre to get these cunts our then so be it.
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Ker- ching.

Likewise. I still fail to see how the far left don't realise that.
 
To be fair, the unions seem to be publically doing the graft for the socialist cause at the minute, first Mick Lynch then this cockney geeezaah

 
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I think if anything they're being too cautious not to give the right wing press anything to work with, to the point sometimes they seem ineffective, but then at the same time I can see why you'd just let the tory infighting and fuckups do the work, I think the picket line thing was more that than anything.
 
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Earlier today a teacher was having trouble getting some unruly students to go back to their lessons. They were playing with a basketball and refusing to leave the playground. So I went out and asked them if I could play and we started to bounce pass to each other. After a minute of playing I was passed the ball and calmly took it inside, telling the students on my way in that I hoped they had a great lesson. They then went upstairs.
 
I say this as someone who will always take a Labour government over a Tory one..Starmer has really...REALLY...mis-read public mood with regards to the strikes.
 
Keir said "workers' rights! (to be poor quietly)." :disco:

Fine for Ms George Osbourne in a wig to make up party policy as she goes along though:

 
lolly said:
I can't allow myself to turn on him until he's won an election.
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The strikes have popular support, its almost like hes trying hard not to win at this point. I was happy to tolerate him but hes getting on my tits. I did do mdma all weekend though.
 
It’s a terrible look, but Tarry is about to be deselected anyway.

He’s also allegedly Angela Rayner’s boyfriend! :D

 
It’s so terrifying to see the centrist message of “oh let’s not make him a martyr etc etc” flood in from the usual suspects. It’s so obvious they’re being told what to say! :D
 
There's plenty to criticise about Keir Starmer, but this sacking shouldn't be one of them.

This Tarry character did an entire broadcast round and spoke on behalf of the party without sign-off at all. He was openly challenging the authority of the leadership and, whatever you think of that judgement, is OBVIOUSLY going to get you fired. If anything this is exactly what he was angling for.

by the by, Starmer is trying to neutralise the classic attacks against Labour at the next election - be it brexit, the snp, unions etc. It goes down badly with the left-wingers (who prioritise ideological purity), but the gamble is that most of them will return to Labour regardless at a GE, and will potentially put doubt in the minds of the naturally conservative middle england types who could switch. Personally, I don't think this is an entirely foolish endeavour, but the way it's been communicated and given fuel to Starmer's opponents has been cack-handed.
 
Starmer is aiming to appease a middle ground which has been steadily depleting since the Tories won a majority in 2015 and that depletion is accelerating as the Tories shift further and further to the right. He's wasting his time. If you're not going to oppose the Tories, you can't be the opposition leader. In particular, Scotland has a proper left wing party and Labour will need Scottish seats in a GE. Start opposing the government, start supporting the unions, get rid of your terfs and then we'll talk, Keir.
 
Ag said:
Good place for Labour to start before Liz might have a bump in the polls.



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Yep more like this please. Shes bound to get a bounce but closing a 15pt deficit would be a huge mountain for the tories.
 
I mostly think Keir has been a useless uncooked sausage of a man, but then I'll see poll results like this and think "Oh right maybe he's on to something"

But I do wish he did more to oppose the current shower and gave people on the left something to get behind, rather than (I'd imagine solely?) just picking up votes from people who'd vote tory were the current lot not so obviously corrupt / insane / inept.

My hope/belief is that, when it comes to genuine Labour policy, he'd be a far better Prime Minister than leader of the opposition, and is more left wing than he currently projects. TIME SHALL TELL (hopefully). And even in his current form he's better than any Tory, obv
 
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