Baby Reindeer (Netflix)

He has my sympathy in that he clearly has large mental health issues himself.

Even now it feels like there are some behaviours repeating, despite his show giving the impression that he's highly self-aware. His public proclamations that he didn't want Martha or the writer identified don't tally. It's either dishonest, or (and maybe more likely) the continued pattern of an unwitting human wrecking ball, who has blundered into another situation where people will get hurt.

I don't mean that to say he owes Martha or the writer anything at all (obviously he doesn't). But it's just another example of how he seems surprised and caught out by consequences that should have very obvious.
 
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floppet said:
That's a fair point although a lot of those women are actually living with their abuser and stuck in the situation. My point is that he kept going back willingly for more of the same. He made a conscious choice every single time to go back to that flat when he knew what was going to happen.
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Because he was literally being groomed.

Not in a sexual way like this, but I’ve DEFINITELY been in toxic situations/ relationships where people have done bad things to me and I’ve gone back for more.

It’s just not as simple as “he made a conscious choice, so it was his fault”. It absolutely isn’t.
 
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Shoat said:
He has my sympathy in that he clearly has large mental health issues himself.

Even now it feels like there are some behaviour repeating, despite his show giving the impression that he's highly self-aware. His public proclamations that he didn't want Martha or the writer identified don't tally. It's either dishonest, or (and maybe more likely) the continued pattern of an unwitting human wrecking ball, who has blundered into another situation where people will get hurt.

I don't mean that to say he owes Martha or the writer anything at all (obviously he doesn't). But it's just another example of how he seems surprised and caught out by consequences that should have very obvious.
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Agreed with that side of things.
 
As an aside, I do also think we need to realise this was a dramatisation, though. Something I missed earlier, I confess. Not everything happened as he wrote.
 
Sheena said:
As an aside, I do also think we need to realise this was a dramatisation, though. Something I missed earlier, I confess. Not everything happened as he wrote.
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In hindsight, I think that could probably be made a bit clearer by just adding an "inspired by actual events" tagline. The show has obviously done incredibly well due to word-of-mouth promo, but the downside of that is the nuance of what's actually being portrayed will be lost in favour of "it's a true story" because that's easier to convey in conversation. I'm not sure that would necessarily stop the social media detectives, but it does seem like some are so invested that they've taken everything at face value and are trying to seek justice on Richard Gadd's behalf. I think Netflix probably has a duty of care in that regard just to ensure people are aware of what they're actually watching.
 
Slave said:
In hindsight, I think that could probably be made a bit clearer by just adding an "inspired by actual events" tagline. The show has obviously done incredibly well due to word-of-mouth promo, but the downside of that is the nuance of what's actually being portrayed will be lost in favour of "it's a true story" because that's easier to convey in conversation. I'm not sure that would necessarily stop the social media detectives, but it does seem like some are so invested that they've taken everything at face value and are trying to seek justice on Richard Gadd's behalf. I think Netflix probably has a duty of care in that regard just to ensure people are aware of what they're actually watching.
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Absolutely agreed. I don’t think it was clear enough at all.
 
Ellie said:
It probably should have been done without Gadd playing (a version of) himself to avoid all of this.
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I'd completely agree that this has made everything much muddier

It dilutes the "inspired by, not all true" message

And the social media warriors, already pre-disposed to "white knighting" behaviour, were always going to be even more galvanised when they're not watching actors as such, but someone re-living their own real life trauma.
 
untilted said:
WHAT!!!!!!!!!!

:D Shit I thought that HAPPENED!

Dear me…
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Glad I wasn’t the only one :basil:

Ellie said:
Even I got that part and I was only really half watching it. Shocked that more than a few people thought that was real.
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I was also half watching and doing other things in the simultaneously but I didn’t think it was shocking if it had happened, it would totally be the kind of thing he would end up doing.
 
Sheena said:
Because he was literally being groomed.

Not in a sexual way like this, but I’ve DEFINITELY been in toxic situations/ relationships where people have done bad things to me and I’ve gone back for more.

It’s just not as simple as “he made a conscious choice, so it was his fault”. It absolutely isn’t.
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Yes.

Also with noting - he was also being ploughed with a cocktail of drugs, ultimately being a catalyst in facilitating the abuse. Unfortunately when a person is battling so many demons, these things can become addictive. Bad people, bad things, bad situations. I'm speaking from experience.

It really is very very complex. The only thing I really grappled with, as I previously discussed was his treatment of Teri just because she really was so pure. I understood it though but found it hard to watch nonetheless.

(Edit: "from experience" in my case I am referring to a vicious cycle of accepting and allowing hideous people and hideous situations into my life because I felt I deserved no better, and ultimately becoming addicted to the misery of it. I'm not suggesting I have been abused the way Gadd was)
 
Add me to the list of people who thought he really did do that with Martha - as @RaspberrySwirl says, it seemed so in keeping with the character/story by that stage, I barely questioned it! I think I did twig otherwise when she said she filmed everything and that incident never came up though. Unless that happened before, I can't remember.

It was full of exceptional performances (even from the side characters, like his dad) that did a good job of making himself come across every bit as awful as Martha, though I appreciated the complexities of showing him to be that way and (partly) why. I'd never want to watch it again and I do question what I even got from it. Entertainment isn't really the word. I also found it to be far too diary-like with it telling us everything via voiceovers. Maybe that was necessary for this, though.
I think ultimately I appreciated it but found it to be hard work.

I do see where @floppet is coming from, though not with the abuse part because that IS abuse. A man promising someone who has little money and a dream, that those dreams can be fulfilled (while buttering them up with endless platitudes they've not received before) and then taking advantage of them every time they're off their tits and not in control of themselves? Of course that's abuse - even if he realised in the morning. And the writer guy knew it exactly, knew he had nothing and used the flattering of his talent and false promises to keep him hooked. It's grim and probably happens all the time.

Still...despite all this, he obviously behaved terribly. It seemed to be framed that that was entirely because of the abuse. That undoubtedly was the root of much of his behaviour, but maybe some of it was there already. I think I came out of it feeling mixed sympathy, but like you wouldn't want to...well, offer him a cup of tea in a bar for a start.
 
Sheena said:
No offence to anyone but I can’t believe anyone believe he did do “that”. It changes the ENTIRE story :D
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Was the masturbating over her bit true or was that not real as well? The nature of the show just made it seem like that progression wouldn't be surprising at all, but as I say, I think I realised upon seeing the bit where she filmed everything that it didn't happen.

I'm sure it SHOULD have been obvious to me, but I probably zoned out like everyone else who believed it at that point during one of the ENDLESS INNER MONOLOGUES no doubt
 
I suspect it was a weak spot in plotting/ editing.

I can't remember how I worked it out as the time, but didn't it segue into sex with Terri. The implication being Martha became the fantasy.
 
GinAg (39) said:
I suspect it was a weak spot in plotting/ editing.

I can't remember how I worked it out as the time, but didn't it segue into sex with Terri. The implication being Martha became the fantasy.
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Yes, when it started, I initially was like "wait, what did I miss?" but when it cut to him having sex with her I realised what was going on.
 
I still took that as having done what he did with Martha, it improved his sex life with Teri :shy: I feel there was something in the voiceover or scene change that didn't convince me otherwise annoyingly.

Obviously my mistake but I'm quite happy to blame it on plotting/editing like Ag said instead :D
 
I’m really glad I wasn’t the only one who thought it really happened :D

To be fair my WEAK DEFENCE is that I was also using my phone at the same time
 
I’m not quite there with the ‘acting was exceptional’ to be honest. She was easily the strongest (Martha) but other than that I thought the acting was only ok. The Dad’s
big scene was nicely written more than it was amazingly acted. And the girl playing Teri was fine - and I loved seeing the representation and the character was so likeable, but performance was only ok…
 
Raining on Me said:
I still took that as having done what he did with Martha, it improved his sex life with Teri :shy: I feel there was something in the voiceover or scene change that didn't convince me otherwise annoyingly.

Obviously my mistake but I'm quite happy to blame it on plotting/editing like Ag said instead :D
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Didn’t he keep asking the detective woman if Martha had mentioned anything else when she had talked to them? Or was that scene right after something else?
 
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