The United Kingdom: The RISHI RICH Sunak ERA

ZenGiraffe said:
Well I'm glad that he silenced the black woman who was the centre of multiple questions in the chamber to follow convention.

Great Speakership.
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MPs have left him in no doubt that they don’t want him to do what he thinks is right.
 
The government redefining extremist groups is ironic, considering they're a HATE GROUP.

They're NOT including the gender critical movement but alluded to including the pro-trans movement.
 
This is the Tories' problem and it is entirely self-created. They pandered to racists under Cameron and fully embraced them under Johnson. Now they have people of colour in major offices, including the highest in the land, and not only do their own voters not like it, neither do their bloody donors.

The only thing that scares me is a pre-election pact with Reform. With Sunak as PM, they won't do it because they are ultimately, a racist party. But with Mordaunt as PM, they might and I would put nothing past the Tories at this stage.
 
Apparently “Sunak is betting everything on economic recovery”.

Well good luck with that considering after them throwing petrol on all the culture wars nobody gives a SHIT about the economy!
 


Stopping the boats going well then eh?

And the yougov poll today with a 4pt gap between reform and the Tories

Gonna be a fun week
 
I mean it’s concerning how far-right the Tory party has become, yet for 15% of the population it’s still not FAR RIGHT enough.
 
I'd like to see a breakdown by area. I can well imagine there are pockets of the country where they are polling double that. Let's hope they aren't standing candidates in all of them.
 
They're a protest vote at the moment, at best. The appeal is to conservative voters in northern and coastal towns who will never be happy about anything despite actually being relatively well off. Not to say they couldn't get more significant in upcoming years with a slicker operation (such as we've seen with far-right parties in europe). at the moment the actual operation is a shambles, the PPCs are a bunch of loons and the appeal is too niche. Even if Farage put himself back in the forefront, at best they would get 1-2 seats at a GE. The real worry would be 2029 if they can get their shit together.
 
Not sure whether it's a blip but they seem to be doing more of dent in polling than the BNP ever did, so while they might not win any seats (God help us) they're doing the damage they are supposed to.

Honestly, for so many many years I would get so frustrated at how the left vote was split across Labour, SNP, Green, Libs and so on, not because those parties aren't legit, justified or credible, they are, but because the Tories were left unchallenged and one of the main reasons they do so well at polls. The right were always steadfast in their desire to keep Labour out and not creative or open minded enough to consider alternatives. Now the frustration with this dumpster fire of a government has come home to roost - neither the voters or the party are happy and it's glorious. I hope Reform keep doing what they're good at and that's destroying the right from within. Because Reform are the GB News of politics - they don't like Sky News because it's not RIGHT enough for them so they create their own channel on a shoestring budget and a load of empty ideas and hot air, and promptly shit the bed.

I just hope they shit the bed slowly so the Tories can keep on dying :D
 
Alex said:
I haven’t seen a single model showing Reform gain a seat, they’ll just help Labour/Lib dems win more from the Tories.
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This is why I'm afraid of a deal. Tories will do anything to stay in power, Labour would be too arrogant to explore a similar deal with the Lib Dems. I don't think a Tory/Reform deal would be 2019 again but it would still keep a lot of seats blue which are currently looking like turning red.
 
Funky said:
Honestly, for so many many years I would get so frustrated at how the left vote was split across Labour, SNP, Green, Libs and so on, not because those parties aren't legit, justified or credible, they are, but because the Tories were left unchallenged and one of the main reasons they do so well at polls. The right were always steadfast in their desire to keep Labour out and not creative or open minded enough to consider alternatives.
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The left will always be fragmented because people will differ on the best way to change things and on priorities. The right tend to want the status quo only more so and this is easier to rally people behind.

I worry for a country where Reform are polling so high but I do think it's mainly born of dissatisfaction with the Conservatives. Once they're out on their ear, they'll need to reposition themselves and that will be hard for them because they can't go much further to the right and if they go back to the centre, they'll be further left than Labour!
 
Lucille said:
I mean it’s concerning how far-right the Tory party has become, yet for 15% of the population it’s still not FAR RIGHT enough.
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i would say it's considerably more concerning how right LABOUR has moved given that they'll be in power for a while now and we essentially don't have any opposition party on the left other than the greens.
 
Jark said:
i would say it's considerably more concerning how right LABOUR has moved given that they'll be in power for a while now and we essentially don't have any opposition party on the left other than the greens.
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(except for viewers in Scotland and Wales)
 
octophone said:
(except for viewers in Scotland and Wales)
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Hopefully the SNP will manage to cling on to enough seats to still have questions each week at PMQs and the various other benefits of being a significant party. I don't know how many seats that requires in Westminster though (it's 6 I believe in the Scottish Parliament, which thankfully the Lib Dems no longer have :disco:)
 
ZenGiraffe said:
Hopefully the SNP will manage to cling on to enough seats to still have questions each week at PMQs and the various other benefits of being a significant party. I don't know how many seats that requires in Westminster though (it's 6 I believe in the Scottish Parliament, which thankfully the Lib Dems no longer have :disco:)
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The opposition have six questions, the third largest party get two. That’s the only guarantee. Current avg polling puts SNP fourth place.
 
I think the SNP will do better than the polls currently project but not by too much, not to a surprising degree. Rutherglen was specifically about Margaret Ferrier and can't be extrapolated as far as some pollsters have suggested.
 
The high/low on SNP for Westminster is like 55/15 seats … voting intention is more volatile than at any time in history, Scotland particularly so
 
gggggg said:
The high/low on SNP for Westminster is like 55/15 seats … voting intention is more volatile than at any time in history, Scotland particularly so
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And the fact that Labour don't give a shit about their image up here (see: the celebration of Margaret Thatcher) I think the SNP will manage to get close to the 40 mark; assuming no major developments occur re: campervangate
 
it’s entirely possible. Also prob worth pointing out there was no celebration of Thatcher. Reeves’ speech didn’t mention her once, just that the country needs renewel like it did in 78/79… don’t believe the hype
 
ZenGiraffe said:
And the fact that Labour don't give a shit about their image up here (see: the celebration of Margaret Thatcher) I think the SNP will manage to get close to the 40 mark; assuming no major developments occur re: campervangate
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Oh, I'm quite sure these will be timed appropriately. :eyes:
 
gggggg said:
it’s entirely possible. Also prob worth pointing out there was no celebration of Thatcher. Reeves’ speech didn’t mention her once, just that the country needs renewel like it did in 78/79… don’t believe the hype
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I mean, it's irrelevant what she actually said. Perception is everything, and she and Lammy handed the SNP ammo.
 
Jark said:
i would say it's considerably more concerning how right LABOUR has moved given that they'll be in power for a while now and we essentially don't have any opposition party on the left other than the greens.
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Lib Dems are certainly to the left of Labour socially (economically we'll have to wait until manifestos I suppose)
 
Alex said:
Lib Dems are certainly to the left of Labour socially (economically we'll have to wait until manifestos I suppose)
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Wait, that party that recently had a homophobic leader?

Or the one that that had the NUKE THEM TO OBLIVION leader?

SO LEFT WING. I'm beyond sad that they'll soon be politically relevant again.
 
ZenGiraffe said:
Wait, that party that recently had a homophobic leader?

Or the one that that had the NUKE THEM TO OBLIVION leader?

SO LEFT WING. I'm beyond sad that they'll soon be politically relevant again.
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Trying to make out that the socially liberal party of the UK are actually authoritarian because of the personal views of two of their wacky leaders is quite the take
 
gggggg said:
Trying to make out that the socially liberal party of the UK are actually authoritarian because of the personal views of two of their wacky leaders is quite the take
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What about enabling austerity and the numerous deaths that followed, or betraying students in their entirety if we want more sensible takes then.
 
ZenGiraffe said:
What about enabling austerity and the numerous deaths that followed, or betraying students in their entirety if we want more sensible takes then.
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Because the Liberal Democrats are also fiscally liberal … do you actually understand politics?
 
ZenGiraffe said:
I'm claiming they're not left wing, which you haven't refuted. So...yes, clearly I do.
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They’re fiscally on the right, and socially on the left (so to speak), so liberal on both axis.

You were trying to make out they’re actually socially conservative by mentioning things they did which were fiscally liberal. So let’s try again, what’s a socially conservative Liberal Democrat policy?
 
gggggg said:
They’re fiscally on the right, and socially on the left (so to speak), so liberal on both axis.

You were trying to make out they’re actually socially conservative by mentioning things they did which were fiscally liberal. So let’s try again, what’s a socially conservative Liberal Democrat policy?
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Not funding socially liberal policies (e.g. tuition fees) so being all talk no action.

Socially liberal fiscally conservative is a ludicrous position to adopt.
 
ZenGiraffe said:
Not funding socially liberal policies (e.g. tuition fees) so being all talk no action.

Socially liberal fiscally conservative is a ludicrous position to adopt.
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Why? Is it not just the tenet that the state shouldn’t interfere unduly in peoples lives or livelihoods? I don’t agree with it completely myself, but it’s a pretty legitimate school of thought.

It also might shock you to know that left wing fiscal policy can have also have negative social effects.
 
gggggg said:
Why? Is it not just the tenet that the state shouldn’t interfere unduly in peoples lives or livelihoods? I don’t agree with it completely myself, but it’s a pretty legitimate school of thought.

It also might shock you to know that left wing fiscal policy can have also have negative social effects.
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If you are left wing/socially liberal, you presumably believe in addressing inequality. And to do that, you need financial redistribution, which will never be done by the free market so requires state intervention (and therefore, state spending)
 
ZenGiraffe said:
If you are left wing/socially liberal, you presumably believe in addressing inequality. And to do that, you need financial redistribution, which will never be done by the free market so requires state intervention (and therefore, state spending)
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As a specific outcome to a specific problem, that theoretically works. You seem to suggest that social liberalism can only exist within a democratic socialist framework, but I don't think that's true. The argument against that idea would be that to enforce redistribution as such a scale you would also need to impede on the freedoms of the individual to a greater extent - like why every pure socialist (or communist) state in history has also been socially authoritarian. Not that you're arguing for such a state, but i hope you get my point.

I personally find the democratic socialist/left-libertarian argument as fanciful Utopianism. The answer is somewhere in the middle (yr centrist dad speaking) with targeted and limited redistribution within a capitalist model.
 
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