Finland 2023: Käärijä - Cha Cha Cha

How well will this do?

  • WINNER

    Votes: 7 16.3%

  • Top 5

    Votes: 31 72.1%

  • Top 10

    Votes: 5 11.6%

  • 11-15

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 15-20

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 21-25

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • LAST

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Non Qualifier

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    43
Suomi said:
Haven’t listened to this since the competition. The insanely bitter fan reaction killed it for me :(
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I don’t care for it as a song and I suspect he believed his own hype a little too much (which is easy enough to do), but agreed, it brought out the most toxic aspects of the fandom.

Tattoo has also been a much bigger hit in the end.
 
Kratz said:
I don’t care for it as a song and I suspect he believed his own hype a little too much (which is easy enough to do), but agreed, it brought out the most toxic aspects of the fandom.

Tattoo has also been a much bigger hit in the end.
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I'm not sure the toxic fandom is deserving of him being labelled as such, though, which HAS happened and which seems to revolve around him being ENTIRELY UNDERSTANDABLY a bit gutted he didn't win.

As for "believed his own hype a little too much"- he came second and won the public vote, FFS! Any hype was entirely valid. We're not talking ANGELICA AGURBASH here.
 
Apoca said:
As I said, I don't like it when the jury ostensibly buries the televote winner and I think it merits some evaluating.
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Käärijä wasn't buried though?
His combined showing would've been enough to win the competition in many years.

I think most fans have failed to notice EBU's changes to the jury judging criteria this year. Those changes greatly benefited Cha Cha Cha and finally made acts like this competitive again.
 
Be careful what you wish for.

The most glaring difference results wise is that Thunder And Lightning would've won over 1944 under the current judging scheme.
 
Hak said:
Käärijä wasn't buried though?
His combined showing would've been enough to win the competition in many years.

I think most fans have failed to notice EBU's changes to the jury judging criteria this year. Those changes greatly benefited Cha Cha Cha and finally made acts like this competitive again.
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Loreen "having an almost insurmountable jury-lead" is probably a similarly truthful way of putting it - eventually, it's two sides of the same coin.

I'm still as thrilled with Loreen winning as the next person, but I don't think it's irreconcilable with having an overall preferance for the winner to be the public favourite.

Did I prefer Måns over Il Volo in 2015? Yes, and there was a margin unlike with Loreen and Käärijä this year. Do I think I think Il Volo should have won after seeing the voting results? Yes, probably.
 
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I very much prefer to see it as Loreen overcoming an (even more) almost insurmountable public vote lead. But then I like the system we have now, with Heidi Range telling me what's actually good, because I'm too stupid to realise it.
 
Apoca said:
Loreen "having an almost insurmountable jury-lead" is probably a similarly truthful way of putting it - eventually, it's two sides of the same coin.

I'm still as thrilled with Loreen winning as the next person, but I don't think it's irreconcilable with having an overall preferance for the winner to be the public favourite.

Did I prefer Måns over Il Volo in 2015? Yes, and there was a margin unlike with Loreen and Käärijä this year. Do I think I think Il Volo should have won after seeing the voting results? Yes, probably.
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Il Volo's televote greatly benefited from the best draw possible. But YES! They would've been a very worthy winners.

(Would've lagged further behind Mans under the current system however.)
 
Apoca said:
Loreen "having an almost insurmountable jury-lead" is probably a similarly truthful way of putting it - eventually, it's two sides of the same coin.
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I don’t really like this way of putting it either, because had Loreen not also got significant support from the public, she wouldn’t have been able to win.

Her jury lead would have been very much surmountable if the public hadn’t cared for it and put her 20th (or even as high as 5th).
 
Pingu said:
I don’t really like this way of putting it either, because had Loreen not also got significant support from the public, she wouldn’t have been able to win.

Her jury lead would have been very much surmountable if the public hadn’t cared for it and put her 20th (or even as high as 5th).
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Agreed and she was second on the televote, right?
 
I was watching videos on youtube of songs with the biggest televotes and one with the best jury votes and people were saying no wonder it’s Sweden who mostly benefitted from the rules. It just made me want to destroy the internet (and the whole universe). :angry::(
 
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RaspberrySwirl said:
I was watching videos on youtube of songs with the biggest televotes and one with the best jury votes and people were saying no wonder it’s Sweden who mostly benefitted from the rules. It just made me want to destroy the internet (and the whole universe). :angry::(
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Yes, I saw the public one last night. Kalush Orchestra #1 and Käärijä #2.

Loreen's insurmountable lead is only a matter of perspective and format.
 
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I really think that we need to have a little perspective here. The people aggressively villainising Sweden are just hardcore loons on Twitter, mostly very young people. In as much as joe public think about stuff like that at all, I don't think the perception is anything more than that Sweden are very good at Eurovision and usually do well accordingly.
 
VoR said:
I really think that we need to have a little perspective here. The people aggressively villainising Sweden are just hardcore loons on Twitter, mostly very young people. In as much as joe public think about stuff like that at all, I don't think the perception is anything more than that Sweden are very good at Eurovision and usually do well accordingly.
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youtube and instagram too it seems


It’s I think also because the Finns aren’t used to do well and this time the whole country believed in its own hype and really thought they were going to win.
 
Just out of interest, in case anyone can answer easily (I'll look back myself if not), how frequently over the last decade or so have Sweden done worse with the jury than the public?
 
Of course Sweden do well with the juries, their entire selection is designed to give them a song which will do well with the juries whilst sometimes also doing well with the public, in which case they win. The villains here aren’t Sweden, it’s the idiot juries who didn’t have Finland anywhere in their points.
 
dmlaw said:
Of course Sweden do well with the juries, their entire selection is designed to give them a song which will do well with the juries whilst sometimes also doing well with the public, in which case they win. The villains here aren’t Sweden, it’s the idiot juries who didn’t have Finland anywhere in their points.
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The same can be said about the snow devil public with their points.
 
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You’d have thought the fandom would have calmed down a bit a month after the contest but OH NO.
 
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However wicked Lorraine STOLE the gong and the evil witch should never have been allowed to enter TWICE. IS CHEATING. Every jury was paid to give LOREN twelve points because 50th anniversary of ABA WATERLOO. Also ALL OF TAYTOO SONG IS COPY SEND HER TO PRISON!
 
I was actually quite surprised to learn after the event that FAR FROM ALL of the juries gave Loreen 12, which isn’t the impression these freaks have been giving
 
Let's not blame poor lovely Käärijä for online LOONS. He can't help being Europe's answer to Evita.
 
Zu said:
However wicked Lorraine STOLE the gong and the evil witch should never have been allowed to enter TWICE. IS CHEATING. Every jury was paid to give LOREN twelve points because 50th anniversary of ABA WATERLOO. Also ALL OF TAYTOO SONG IS COPY SEND HER TO PRISON!
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They keep pointing at that 50th Abba anniversary as if it’s some kind of proof…


What would happen If they also knew/remembered that it’s also Herrey’s 40th and Charlotte’s 25th anniversay too? :D:shy:


omg it’s all a conspiracy isn’t it?
 
And not to forget that Carola only barely won, and wouldn’t with the new rules.
 
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