2023 Christmas No.1

Devil said:
Oh come on toots, given you are very much against airplay being in the chart you surely can’t just take the approach of ‘Spotify programmers can do what they like’ and be okay with it. It is literally the same thing as a radio programmer deciding whats on the A list and thus the chart.

Leona does worse than Ariana and Kelly by and large due to playlisting. All three songs are fairly loved in a similar manner but the charts don’t currently reflect that.
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sorry but... how do you know? where is the research?

the nature of having a playlist is that all songs cannot be equally treated. it's an editorial selection. some will be higher up, some lower down, some not featured. there's no fair or objective way to navigate that, it's what the format is.

of course Spotify programmers can do what they like. they have absolutely no mandate to give every song out there equally treatment, and good job cos it wouldn't be possible.

I think this narrative that Leona has been done dirty somehow, by not being given playlisting prio, is a bit ridic frankly. hers is a ten year old song that's still doing OK, just not as well as some other songs from the same era. and that's fine!
 
:D

are you kidding - you can't say all 3 are loved in a similar manner and not have that claim be questioned if by your own admission there's no way of knowing. that's just what you'd like to believe. if there was a massive appetite for One More Sleep it would be outperforming it's playlisting placements, as some songs do.
 
Devil said:
You can’t research that kind of thing, which you well know - don’t be a dismissive asshole.
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I also didn't dismiss anything, I asked a question. this is a discussion. turn down the heat!
 
All three are well liked modern classics - of course there is no way of ever measuring exactly which is liked more by whom, but anyone with some basic logic would likely assume all three are in the same box and relatively equally liked. The reason one is higher than the other is nearly completely down to their playlist position - of course songs can outdo their position but 90% of the time they do not due to the high amount of passive listening.

I couldn’t give two hoots if Ariana out charts Leona, but if Leona got popped up to #3 on the main playlist it is completely clear she would launch right up the chart whether people like the song or not.
 
maybe Kelly and Ariana's songs are placed higher by playlisters and are more popular with the public because they have big profiles as artists/personalities, and have been consistently active in music across the last decade?

Leona more or less disappeared after 2013. she doesn't promote the song much/at all each year (Kelly performed Tree on TV this week). I don't think it's unreasonable or strange that songs by two active artists with varying degrees of popularity would be prioritised over the last relevant release by an artist who's basically retired now and was only ever really big in one corner of the world.

agree to disagree though!
 
Airplay in the US is at least determined, in significant part, based on call out scores, so it isn't entirely dictated by the programmers themselves. The UK is a bit different though since Radio 1, Radio 2 etc contributes to most of the airplay. The US is a bit more all over the map so it is more difficult to manipulate unless you have a week 1 deal where they play you every hour etc. But that rarely makes a long term impact and streaming will always buffer that effect on the Hot 100.

I've never used Apple Music streaming - do they have a similar playlist component that influences that streaming chart or is it just Spotify and Amazon?
 
I'd agr
Jark Frosty the Snowman said:
maybe Kelly and Ariana's songs are placed higher by playlisters and are more popular with the public because they have big profiles as artists/personalities, and have been consistently active in music across the last decade?

Leona more or less disappeared after 2013. she doesn't promote the song much/at all each year (Kelly performed Tree on TV this week). I don't think it's unreasonable or strange that songs by two active artists with varying degrees of popularity would be prioritised over the last relevant release by an artist who's basically retired now and was only ever really big in one corner of the world.

agree to disagree though!
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I think they're playlisted higher solely because playlists are Americanised tbh

Otherwise are we also claiming Bobby Helms is more beloved than Slade or Band Aid?
 
A Lolly Dolly Christmas said:
I've just asked Alexa to play Christmas music, and the first five tracks I've been given were Jorja Smith, Sam Ryder, Bobby Helms, Bublé and Andy Williams. Wonder how long it would have been before it gave me Wham?
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That’s ridiculous. How does that help Amazon build value to customers if they’re not playing what people expect to hear?

I’d be FUMMIN
 
Jingle POP! said:
Airplay in the US is at least determined, in significant part, based on call out scores, so it isn't entirely dictated by the programmers themselves. The UK is a bit different though since Radio 1, Radio 2 etc contributes to most of the airplay. The US is a bit more all over the map so it is more difficult to manipulate unless you have a week 1 deal where they play you every hour etc. But that rarely makes a long term impact and streaming will always buffer that effect on the Hot 100.

I've never used Apple Music streaming - do they have a similar playlist component that influences that streaming chart or is it just Spotify and Amazon?
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True to a degree about the US radio network but the major labels have always had a very aggressive sales process and relationship strategy with the radio networks for that very reason. They’re all in bed with one another.
 
The Gävle Shoat said:
I think they're playlisted higher solely because playlists are Americanised tbh

Otherwise are we also claiming Bobby Helms is more beloved than Slade or Band Aid?
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Yeah, I think it's because playlists are far more Americanised, as I believe funky pointed out way back. Though I do also agree with Jark's point about how it makes far more sense to push Ariana (particularly) as an active contemporary artist with a huge streaming presence than an act like Leona Lewis.

But my original point wasn't anything about Leona being treated 'unfairly'. I was just comparing those three songs as three modern big Christmas singles released by female pop acts released around the same time, which have all become enduring Christmas hits.

For the last couple of years at least, Ariana and Kelly have been given much better placements on playlists by Spotify than Leona, and have done better than her on the chart. I don't think anybody really believes that's coincidence any more. I'm not questioning why they have a better placement - just that they do, and that Leona's chart position the last couple of years would probably be significantly better if she was given the same placement.
 
A Lolly Dolly Christmas said:
For the last couple of years at least, Ariana and Kelly have been given much better placements on playlists by Spotify than Leona, and have done better than her on the chart. I don't think anybody really believes that's coincidence any more. I'm not questioning why they have a better placement - just that they do, and that Leona's chart position the last couple of years would probably be significantly better if she was given the same placement.
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Kelly and Ariana have much better playlisting on Amazon UK than Leona too and I think their playlisting varies between countries.
 
A Lolly Dolly Christmas said:
I've just asked Alexa to play Christmas music, and the first five tracks I've been given were Jorja Smith, Sam Ryder, Bobby Helms, Bublé and Andy Williams. Wonder how long it would have been before it gave me Wham?
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The rest varies but the starting two songs always seem to be either:

Wham - Sam

Mariah - Sam

Jorja - Sam
 
Anyway I am sorry @Jark Frosty the Snowman for being rude. I read your post as a bit condescending so called it out but you potentially weren’t meaning that, so apologies for that babes.

The below is what I was meaning, they are the 2nd/4th/5th biggest Xmas songs of the 21st century (based on chart sales) which may suggest they are ‘in the same box’ in the UK so it is a bit strange they significantly favour some over others, but as Funks and Lolly have pointed out the Americanisation has possibly caused that.

www.officialcharts.com

The Official Top 40 biggest Christmas songs of the 21st century revealed

Each and every December, sure as sprouts are sprouts, the Official Singles Chart is flooded with festive favourites.
www.officialcharts.com www.officialcharts.com
 
MegaDolly said:
The rest varies but the starting two songs always seem to be either:

Wham - Sam

Mariah - Sam

Jorja - Sam
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I've tried twice against since and have had Jorja and Sam again, followed by Mariah and Sam.

Presumably not putting Sam first is part of the defence if they are questioned about it.
 
It really is quite baffling. Apple as an example is very British friendly based on their chart so I assume they cater it to regional variances; I would’ve assumed Spotify being as big as it is would do that as well.
 
Where is Fairytale of New York on these lists? Because that's fairly unique to these Isles and I don't think I've seen charting elsewhere.
 
GingerbreadAg (39) said:
Where is Fairytale of New York on these lists? Because that's fairly unique to these Isles and I don't think I've seen charting elsewhere.
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That's definitely outperforming its position of 31st on the main Spotify playlist.

Obviously exceptional circumstances this year, but it has reached #4 in the chart every year since 2018, with the exception of last year when it peaked at #9.
 
Spotify Saturday 23rd December

01 Wham! 1.384m
02 Mariah Carey 1.248m
03 Brenda Lee 1.165m
04 The Pogues feat Kirsty MacColl 915k
05 Michael Bublé 912k
06 Ariana Grande 906k
07 Dean Martin 844k
08 Bobby Helms 841k
09 Andy Williams 812k
10 Kelly Clarkson 730k

20 Noah Kahan 561k

27 Leona Lewis 441k

30 Cher 423k

32 Jack Harlow 406k
 
Sam Ryder #1 in the First Look chart, inspiring indie and grassroots artists nationwide!
 
01 Sam Ryder
02 Wham!
03 Mariah Carey
04 Ed Sheeran & Elton John
05 Pogues ft Kirsty MacColl
06 Brenda Lee
07 Jorja Smith
08 Noel Kahan
09 Ariana Grande
10 Michael Bublé
 
Spotify Sunday 24th December

01 Wham! 2.174m
02 Mariah Carey 1.991m
03 Brenda Lee 1.919m
04 Michael Bublé 1.461m
05 Ariana Grande 1.426m
06 The Pogues feat Kirsty MacColl 1.425m
07 Bobby Helms 1.401m
08 Dean Martin 1.386m
09 Andy Williams 1.344m
10 The Ronettes 1.179m

28 Leona Lewis 682k
30 Cher 639k

38 Noah Kahan 521k
52 Jack Harlow 352k
 
I’ve realised that because I’ve synced my Alexa to Spotify, i don’t get Sam Ryder or Jorja Smith :disco: What a life hack!
 
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Reactions: COB
The global Spotify numbers this year for Christmas Eve were massive. Mariah took the record for most streams within 24 hours. She increased from last year by 2m. Britney is doing well despite weak playlist support.

#1 All I Want For Christmas Is You | 23.701.697
#2 Last Christmas | 21.869.632
#3 Rockin Around The Christmas Tree | 18.996.936

#4 Bobby Helms - Jingle Bell Rock 15,818,124
#5 Ariana Grande - Santa Tell Me 14,643,033
#6 Dean Martin - Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow! 14,229,870
#7 Michael Bublé - It‘s Beginning to Look a Lot Like Christmas 14,140,695
#8 Andy Williams - It‘s the Most Wonderful Time of the Year 13,789,130
#9 José Feliciano - Feliz Navidad 12,169,072
#10 Kelly Clarkson - Underneath the Tree 11,929,157
--
#29 Britney Spears - My Only Wish (This Year) 5.42m
#32 Kelly Clarkson & Ariana Grande - Santa, Can‘t You Hear Me 5.14m
#39 Mariah Carey - Christmas (Baby Please Come Home) 4.62m
#48 Cher - DJ Play a Christmas Song 3.99m
#50 Gwen Stefani feat. Blake Shelton - You Make It Feel Like Christmas 3.8m
#52 Taylor Swift - Christmas Tree Farm 3.77m
#53 Laufey - Winter Wonderland 3.75m
#63 Ava Max - Christmas Without You 3.33m
#83 Ariana Grande - Last Christmas 2.74m
#109 Kylie Minogue - Santa Baby 2.26m
#114 Katy Perry - Cozy Little Christmas 2.16m
#121 Mariah Carey - O Holy Night 2.1m
#126 Sabrina Carpenter - A Nonsense Christmas 2.04m
#129 Mariah Carey, Ariana Grande & Jennifer Hudson - Oh Santa! 2.0m
#197 Miley Cyrus - RATCT 1.43m
 
fuck me. CHER! :disco: very impressive for that Ava Max track to be doing bigger numbers than Kylie, Katy etc too.
 
I Saw Funky Kissing Santa Claus said:
I’ve got a feeling it might be another Amazon or Spotify exclusive this year - they’re already pushing them heavily. Remember when Ellie Goulding did it that one year even though most of the country hadn’t even heard the song? How does an Amazon-only song get to #1 anyway when it’s only the 3rd most popular streaming platform?

Keep an eye on Jorja Smith - I love her, but she’s done an absolutely dreadful cover of East 17 and it’s already charting higher than a lot of the classics on the main chart.
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I heard the Jorja Smith cover for the first time this weekend. I LIKE Jorja, but I do have some feelings about this one... did she sing it in her sleep? Where's the energy girl? Where's the emotion?

If your stance is "too cool" maybe don't cover East 17!
 
untilted said:
I heard the Jorja Smith cover for the first time this weekend. I LIKE Jorja, but I do have some feelings about this one... did she sing it in her sleep? Where's the energy girl? Where's the emotion?

If your stance is "too cool" maybe don't cover East 17!
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It was a terrible choice of a song. Did anyone involved stop to consider whether the song completely doesn’t suit her at all? To think they actually picked a really good artist for a Christmas exclusive for once, and this is what they came up with
 
I Saw Funky Kissing Santa Claus said:
It was a terrible choice of a song. Did anyone involved stop to consider whether the song completely doesn’t suit her at all? To think they actually picked a really good artist for a Christmas exclusive for once, and this is what they came up with
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Isn’t it about suicide too? I feel like it’s always handled like a tender love song but that’s not the case!
 
Spotify Monday 25th December

01 Wham! 2.890m
02 Brenda Lee 2.720m
03 Mariah Carey 2.644m
04 Dean Martin 2.130m
05 Michael Bublé 2.128m
06 Bobby Helms 2.110m
07 Andy Williams 2.092m
08 Ariana Grande 1.930m
09 The Ronettes 1.895m
10 The Pogues ft Kirsty MacColl 1.887m

30 Leona Lewis 1.038m
32 Cher 999k

74 Noah Kahan 415k
104 Jack Harlow 279k
 
I'll post the chart tomorrow just to show how the streams collapse.

I've discovered through typing his name every day that I can't read, type or say the name 'Dean Martin' without hearing it in the voice of Jinkx Monsoon as Judy Garland.
 
Spotify Tuesday 26th December

01 Noah Kahan 479,313
02 Wham! 479,247
03 Mariah Carey 431k
04 Brenda Lee 406k
05 Jack Harlow 331k
06 Michael Bublé 322k
07 The Pogues ft Kirsty MacColl 320k
08 Ariana Grande 317k
09 Dean Martin 314k
10 Bobby Helms 314k

30 Cher 188k
34 Leona Lewis 175k
 
Britain really does shout "turn that bloody rubbish off, I've got a headache over here!" on Boxing Day, eh?

That and head for the sales, I guess.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those are just people who leave on the playlists from Christmas evening.
 
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