Thoughts on The Smiths

The reason for the thread is that Morrissey has posted a passive aggressive note on his website to say that he's up for a reunion but Marr isn't.
 
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I don't have that many thoughts at all, personally. But I was surprised to discover that my 16 year old niece is quite fond of a few tracks, presumably thanks to TikTok. So I was able to give her some recommendations.

I'm planning on possibly getting her a record player for her birthday, so perhaps I ought to look out for some cheapish 2nd hand vinyl for her as well.
 
I can just about tolerate The Smiths, because the best songs are terrific. But I simply can't dissociate them from Morrissey and I feel a bit filthy listening.

I've long despised Morrissey. I would say he's destroyed his own legacy but he was always a nationalist prick, it was just less explicit back in the day.
 
I still hold out hope that one day he will have a big redemptive moment and repent and say sorry for all the shit he's said and done, but I don't think he ever will.
 
They changed my life. They shaped my life. They saved my life.

This is why I detest what Morrissey has become SO much. For the voice that understood, that accepted, that judged only those who pass judgement to become....THAT. It's gruesome.
 
AGinAg (39) said:
I've long despised Morrissey. I would say he's destroyed his own legacy but he was always a nationalist prick, it was just less explicit back in the day.
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The first indicator that the rose coloured spectacles had something more dangerous behind them was really not until his first solo album and even then, it was largely seen as clumsiness at the time although he was called out for it.
 
It saddens me but is also quite instructive, I think, that somebody capable of writing such profoundly sad and human lyrics, can also turn into the thunderously bigoted wanker Morrissey is today.

It just shows how easily those feelings of being the sensitive outsider can calcify into something very dark and bitter if you don't watch yourself.

And he managed to fall down that wormhole before social media!
 
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To be honest, the more I think of it and re-examine his earlier work the more I think he was always bigoted but I'd rather not do it too much because then it just ruins everything.
 
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I mean, he had a song called 'Bengali In Platforms' on his solo debut in 1987 which featured lyrics like "Shelve your Western plans, and understand/ That life is hard enough when you belong here."

We were all guilty by making excuses for him. I can put my hand up now and say the conversation has moved on and times have changed, and I was wrong when I made excuses for those lyrics and his other behaviour (e.g. flirting with skinhead imagery in the 1990s). The fact that I am a person of colour is irrelevant.

I think fans of other artists (e.g. Michael Jackson etc.) who have not done this yet may also want to consider that. It's almost a bit like grief.
 
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At least Jackson had the decency to die. I’d be a lot happier separating Morrissey’s art from his personality if he was in the ground.
 
Suedehead said:
I mean, he had a song called 'Bengali In Platforms' on his solo debut in 1987 which featured lyrics like "Shelve your Western plans, and understand/ That life is hard enough when you belong here."
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That's the one that was largely taken as clumsiness, that the phrase "belong here" was being used because racists used it rather than to be racist. Given the overall tone of the song, I think that might be right but I also find it hard to believe that a lyricist as careful and as articulate as Morrissey wouldn't have seen the criticism coming which, therefore, suggests that he knew what he was doing.
 
Omg these guys!

I discovered them at the perfect time. Mid-adolescence. Reeling from a series of traumas. Trying to process the madness inherent to (my?) life. Their lyrics hit hard. They didn't just hold up a mirror to pain, sorrow, anxiety, etc. - it felt like they truly understood it (granting a precious, rare catharsis), and by simply existing they pointed a way out of it too. There was plenty of hope within their singular brand of sardonic misery-porn. And lots of fun, too! If you have five seconds to spare / Then I'll tell you the story of my life / Sixteen, clumsy, and shy - that's the story of my life. Like, what morose, lit-loving teen prone to overthinking is ever gonna resist stuff like that? I also loved that they presented an alternative vision of masculinity where sensitivity and feeling were foregrounded. And they were so very British (in that accented, awkward, 'multilayered neuroses' sense of the term). It felt like every other fucked up misfit at school was listening to Nirvana or Linkin Park or something. The Smiths very much felt mine.

I had 'I Know It's Over' (still one of my fave songs ever), 'Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me', 'There Is a Light That Never Goes Out' and 'Please, Please, Please, Let Me Get What I Want' on perma-repeat back then. I remember being completely floored the first time I bought Strangeways and encountered 'Last Night...' with its seemingly endless intro that I couldn't make sense of but knew I loved anyway and then: Last night I dreamt that somebody loved me / No hope, no harm, just another false alarm. Everything that they sung about felt so real to me, and sometimes they flung sucker-punches to the soul with such casual abandon that you didn't really grasp the impact of what they'd done until forced to reckon with the internal chaos they'd wreaked afterwards. I needed that, I think, and I loved them to bits for it.

So yeah, they were def one of the major bands of my youth. But I barely ever listen to them anymore. I'm not able or willing to separate art from the artists, though fortunately in most cases where that's advisable, I dislike the artist in question anyway. It's easy to wipe Morrissey's solo career from my life because it never had anywhere near the same impact ('Bengali in Platforms' set alarm bells ringing when I bought his debut, but teenage me was willing to pass it off as witty and I think was even grateful for the representation LOL). The Smiths = a harder proposition, natch. But if I have to be a consumer then I need to make better choices, be it boycotting nefarious conglomerates or, in this case, shitty individuals. I'd rather avoid the music whenever possible and have Morrissey receive zilch than have even a fraction of a penny get sent towards a bigoted broflake who'd prefer that I didn't exist so visibly (It takes strength to be gentle and kind, eh). The irony being, of course, that his words played a big part in making me feel like I belonged and that there were others of my mad old ilk out there in the world. Oh well!

Anyway, Morrissey can fuck off, but The Smiths remain the greatest band of their decade imo and if people are to discuss them then we should herald the talents of the other members more than we do. 'Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now', 'Barbarism Begins at Home', 'The Headmaster Ritual', etc. are flat-out bops even if you remove vocals from the equation entirely. I applaud their musicality, and I look forward to a day when I might be able to enjoy that again guilt-free.
 
old spice said:
Anyway, Morrissey can fuck off, but The Smiths remain the greatest band of their decade imo and if people are to discuss them then we should herald the talents of the other members more than we do. 'Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now', 'Barbarism Begins at Home', 'The Headmaster Ritual', etc. are flat-out bops even if you remove vocals from the equation entirely. I applaud their musicality, and I look forward to a day when I might be able to enjoy that again guilt-free.
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Brilliant post, thank you!

I've quoted this bit because it's kinda how I try to deal with it. The Smiths were a group - it was about those 4 people together and I try not to throw the whole thing in the bin because one of them is now an unutterable wanker. IT's similar with The Fall - Mark E Smith treated the members of his group with the same contempt that Morrissey did but I'm not listening to Mark E Smith, I'm listening to The Fall and many of those ex-members are actively involved in projects to keep the legacy alive. Plus, MES is dead and therefore can't get any worse.
 
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