Alec Baldwin Discharges Prop Gun - Kills Cinematographer/Injures Director

RJN said:
Agreed. I also, personally, don’t think this is Baldwin’s fault. With the information we have now at least
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Same, and to be clear I'm not out for his blood, and have a lot sympathy for him right now. I'm just surprised he was (essentially) allowed to go home afterwards!
 
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RJN said:
My dad (lawyer) said that manslaughter would require recklessness, and that a malfunctioning prop wouldn’t count. So I guess intent does matter?
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It's been a while since I did criminal law at law school, and having had a quick look at the different types of manslaughter in the UK, this may well fall between the stools. But usually that's for a court to decide, unless it very clearly isn't any form of manslaughter. It sucks for the victims' families if there's not even a process, but it does happen that way of course!
 
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I suppose it comes down to what the purpose of arresting someone is. From what we know, he doesn't sound like he is a danger to anyone, and he is giving information freely. He can always be arrested later if the evidence suggests that is required.
 
Iguana said:
As I say, in the UK at least, it's a serious crime even if it was an accident, and certainly an arrestable offence
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he's an actor doing his job. anybody arrested and charged with manslaughter will be the props person or gun handler who misprepared the gun, assuming that's what happened.

I don't think Alec would be charged with manslaughter in the UK, the responsible person whose mistake allowed the gun to go off would be.
 
ZenGiraffe said:
I suppose it comes down to what the purpose of arresting someone is. From what we know, he doesn't sound like he is a danger to anyone, and he is giving information freely. He can always be arrested later if the evidence suggests that is required.
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But you can be arrested for theft, or fraud, where there's no altercation. I'm not sure I follow this
 
Iguana said:
But you can be arrested for theft, or fraud, where there's no altercation. I'm not sure I follow this
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There would be, presumably, a clear suspect in those cases, who may be uncooperative. Whereas in this incident, there isn't a clear suspect. They'd need to arrest at a minimum the props department as well under the logic of arresting Baldwin. If everyone is cooperating, the police can conduct an investigation without needing to make an arrest at this time.
 
Iguana said:
It's been a while since I did criminal law at law school, and having had a quick look at the different types of manslaughter in the UK, this may well fall between the stools. But usually that's for a court to decide, unless it very clearly isn't any form of manslaughter. It sucks for the victims' families if there's not even a process, but it does happen that way of course!
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It probably is up to the courts, but for the prop person?
 
ZenGiraffe said:
There would be, presumably, a clear suspect in those cases, who may be uncooperative. Whereas in this incident, there isn't a clear suspect. They'd need to arrest at a minimum the props department as well under the logic of arresting Baldwin. If everyone is cooperating, the police can conduct an investigation without needing to make an arrest at this time.
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But being arrested doesn't necessarily mean you get put in handcuffs, does it? I get your point, but an arrest is more about
 
Iguana said:
It's been a while since I did criminal law at law school, and having had a quick look at the different types of manslaughter in the UK, this may well fall between the stools. But usually that's for a court to decide, unless it very clearly isn't any form of manslaughter. It sucks for the victims' families if there's not even a process, but it does happen that way of course!
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I *think* it depends on whether he had any intent to harm.
 
On a film set there could be any number of reasons he could have discharged a gun - blocking a scene, working out lighting, even just rehearsing. Surely if the accident happened during a standard part of the filmmaking process then it isn't likely to be considered reckless? Of course, none of this explains how the director got injured as well.
 
ButterTart said:
Of course, none of this explains how the director got injured as well.
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Different directors have different styles. Whilst some might sit on a chair off to the side, plenty are right in on the action so to speak. The most plausible explanation at this point is that they were filming/framing up a shot with the gun directly to camera, so essentially, pointing the gun at the DoP and Director.
 
Iguana said:
In the UK at least, manslaughter doesn't require any intent. Maybe our Americans can confirm if it's the same in the States (assuming this took place there). If so, he's committed a crime whether he meant to or not and the prison sentence cold be lengthy. The police may choose not to prosecute, but I don't know why it's a leap to expect he might be arrested? If he wasn't a film star, surely he would have been
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In the UK, doesn't there have to be some desire to harm, negligence or unlawful conduct for it to be manslaughter? Would a total freak accident still be manslaughter without evidence of those?
 
lolly said:
In the UK, doesn't there have to be some desire to harm, negligence or unlawful conduct for it to be manslaughter? Would a total freak accident still be manslaughter without evidence of those?
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I think that's right. But not something you can ascertain without questioning
 
I know a few people who work on film sets, so naturally enquired this morning about this stuff. The response I got was it was probably a case of a misfired antique weapon (possibly a shotgun) where the projectile was likely a blank shell casing or part of the gun barrel/firing mechanism that broke apart when fired. Grim stuff.

Additionally there will be some liability on set, presumably with the armourer who supplied/instructed on the weapon or the First AD/Key Grip who would be responsible for safety.
 
This is just very sad for everyone :(

Also that old tweet from Alec Baldwin. There’s a very clear difference between wrongful (by a police officer who knows they are carrying a live round in their gun) and accidental, so unsure why that’s being brought up.
 
Ellie said:
This is just very sad for everyone :(

Also that old tweet from Alec Baldwin. There’s a very clear difference between wrongful (by a police officer who knows they are carrying a live round in their gun) and accidental, so unsure why that’s being brought up.
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I have 1000 times more sympathy for Baldwin than I do for that cop
 
ZenGiraffe said:
Different directors have different styles. Whilst some might sit on a chair off to the side, plenty are right in on the action so to speak. The most plausible explanation at this point is that they were filming/framing up a shot with the gun directly to camera, so essentially, pointing the gun at the DoP and Director.
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Different directors have different styles. Whilst some might sit on a chair off to the side, this one chose to sit on the cinematographer's lap :(
 
Well I can’t blame the Twitter trolls for not being amazed to have that fall in their lap whilst cross examining everything he’s ever said and done on social media, but still, grim.

(Hoping it wasn’t Jiva who was looking for it now :D)
 
Hearing now that apparently the entire camera crew walked off set that morning citing bad treatment and safety concerns. The producers bought in non-union crew, then the incident occurred.

This is going to be a huge scandal.
 
gggggg said:
Hearing now that apparently the entire camera crew walked off set that morning citing bad treatment and safety concerns. The producers bought in non-union crew, then the incident occurred.

This is going to be a huge scandal.
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bad treatment by WHOMST?
 
apnews.com

Warrant: Baldwin didn't know weapon contained live round

Court records show that an assistant director unwittingly handed Alec Baldwin a loaded weapon and told him it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fatally shot a cinematographer.
apnews.com apnews.com

Alec Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fatally shot a cinematographer, court records released Friday show.

The assistant director did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe court.

Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was shot in the chest on the set of a Western starring Baldwin. Director Joel Souza was wounded. The records said he was standing behind her.
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Why on earth would the gun be LOADED?!? I can understand it having blanks but can’t conceive why LIVE AMMUNITION would ever be put in a prop?!?
 
Lucille said:
Why on earth would the gun be LOADED?!? I can understand it having blanks but can’t conceive why LIVE AMMUNITION would ever be put in a prop?!?
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Well exactly! And the implication that it shot right through the poor woman and hit the director behind.

How awful… I’d be traumatised
 
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